Track this topic | Email this topic | Print this topic

I've heard some people say that FFVI would be better without these "filler" characters. I sorta agree but it's hard to say without seeing a living example of what the game would be like without them. One thing to consider is that the story would have been able to spend more time developing the well established characters. The whole "too many characters" argument is often based off of the fact that these extra characters come out of nowhere and have little back story. Gogo serves the purpose of being a secret character with super abilities so his existence is often deemed legitimate. However Relm, Strago and Umaro are by far the most unpopular characters according to the character impressions study.

So what do you think? Should they have been left out?

--------------------

FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Relm is too funny to give up, Strago gives you he geezer factor, and Umaro... well, his theme made one heck of an OC remix. So I like 'em.

--------------------

Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!

Relm has the most calm character theme of them all. Yes, I just don't like Relm or Strago's abilities, though.

Gogo is a filler character. He has no story whatsoever. Umaro is also filler character, but at least he has a past history with Mog (another character with little to do with the storyline). Strago and Relm aren't filler characters, they both fit into the storyline. You can't even talk about Relm's storyline without spoiler tags, so that is proof positive eh?

You said it yourself. People just don't like relm/strago/umaro because they think they are weak. People like Gogo because he is ridiculously powerful. You could give a talking rock bum rush and people would love him. This has nothing to do with the story.

I think Relm is one of the best characters. She has the 2nd best magic power and she has the best set of equipment for magic. Control is also very underated because it doesn't work on bosses. In my opinion, it is hands down the best ability against random monsters, something one will greatly appreciate in underleveled games.

This post has been edited by 1stclass on 11th June 2004 02:38

To start i don't like any of those characters. but From a perspective they were needed. If they had been made NPC's persay- everyone would be Dying to know why they couldnt play as them. They also were nessecary for plot development, and

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

a quick look into the life of shadow

--------------------

If you've been mod-o-fied,
It's an illusion, and you're in-between.
Don't you be tarot-fied,
It's just alot of nothing, so what can it mean?
~Frank Zappa

Sins exist only for people who are on the Way or approaching the Way

I could care less about Umaro, but Relm and Strago are fairly important to the story and overall game.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

The underlying idea that Shadow is Relm's father, and that he left her with Strago, possibly because of his choice to be a mercenary is one of the important side-plots

Plus their abilities make them unique

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Strago is the only Blue Mage in the game, and Relm's Control ability makes her useful when trying to steal rare items/weapons/armor/relics from some of the more powerful enemies

--------------------

Don't worry, I'm not going to garrote you.

While I consider Umaro boring (you can't do anything with him other then the extremely obvious), both Relm and Strago are usefull and important in their own way. It's their skills that could have been improved. Strago's Lores are fun and produce a nice amount of nice glitches (Rippler, for instance), but let's get serious here: how often do you come across a certain battle that moves like Rippler, Pep Up, Exploder, etc. even seem remotely usefull, not to mention more usefull then attacking?

Relm's Sketch is a very interesting concept, and it's an incredible shame that it was worked out this badly. The very working of the command can tell you that it's not going to work. More annoying is the fact that most bosses have NO set Sketch script. Battle/Special is what you get, and half of the time their Special hasn't even been filled out yet, resulting in 'Hit'.

If you ask me, they could've inserted twice as many characters.

--------------------

The Collapse of Heaven and Earth

I liked Relm, Strago, and Umaro. On my latest FF6 file, I've just gotten Umaro, and I've found that his physical attacks are really strong. The guy can level a bunch of enemies in no time! I found that not being able to control him made it annoying at times, but I still used him in the final dungeon. Of course, he was one of the last on the list to fight:)

Relm, as a character, was annoying at times, but she also was funny. She had that whole old person abuse thing going on that you would expect to hear about in some twisted nursing home:) In battle, she's really powerful because she has one of the highest magic stats.

Strago's a blue mage, so I can't really complain:)

--------------------

It's more than a game, it's a religion.

Get the pulp beaten out of you to beat the pulp out of enemies.
-Blue Mage's Oath

Yes, Umaro does not tie into the story very well, (aside being the moogles friend), but he is a strong fighter, and handy in certain circumstances ( the cult of Kefka tower).

Strago has good, strong (expensive) lores, and Relm's ability to control is handy too (espescially when tring to steal items!!)

--------------------

"Look at me! I'm a receptionist! G'fa ha ha!" Quote Ultros

Strago, Relm, Shadow, Mog, and Umaro each obviously had a piece to add to the story; maybe not the main one, but they each have their own side, self-contained, story. While everyone else is tied together, they are "just there" tied to the rest with little more than a thread.
Gogo just came out of nowhere and contributed nothing.

As far as in-battle goes, I love Umaro. He is just amazing. Even if I just hold A/X, he moves faster than everyone else, and hits hard.
Strago and Relm are the best mages in the game. Considering how much magic is intertwined into the story, it baffles me how people hate these two so much.
I don't like Gogo much. He's mostly just a redundancy.
Shadow and Mog are universally loved, so no extra comments from me needed.

--------------------

"I had to write four novels before they let me write comic books."
-Brad Meltzer

I liked Relm's speacial ablities, and Strago's especially. I liked Monsters But I don't see any part in the story as far as Gogo and Umaro..... Especially Gogo.........................

Are you guys sure you're not just supporting their existance because that's what you're used to? Wouldn't you rather have seen more developement and dialogue from the characters you get before going to Thamasa? I would have. Is Strago, Relm and Umaro any more useful in battle than the other characters? They're not even as useful, but even if they were, you can only have 4 characters in your party and most people choose not to use those 3 characters. These are some things to think about.

I suppose whether or not the game would have been better without them depends on how well the time spent with the other characters was exploited. If I asked if the game <i>could</i> have been better, I think the obvious answer is yes. Then again you could throw in a lot of ifs in a never ending consideration of how FFVI could have been a better game. I suppose the better question might be this: Were these 3 characters worth the time it took to design them? Did they add enough to the game to make their existances worth while? Did we really need an old man, a little girl and a big ape?

--------------------

FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

A game without a loudmouth little girl with an awesome theme? Impossible!

--------------------

Wow. 1,000 posts.

I miss you all now that I'm in boarding school! ;_;

Relm is t3h 1337est. Besides, if you take out Relm and Strago, then there is no need for Shadow either- or the entire Thamasa sequence... When you think about it, Strago and Relm are almost as integrated into the story as Terra is. They have a hell of a lot more backstory than certain majorly major characters *coughKEFKAcough*, and... Relm's a loudmouth, Strago's the classic freezer geezer! What more could you want?

--------------------

Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!

Yeah, I didn't think of that. If you took Relm out of the picture, Shadow's story isn't nearly as good.

--------------------

Wow. 1,000 posts.

I miss you all now that I'm in boarding school! ;_;

Quote

Wouldn't you rather have seen more developement and dialogue from the characters you get before going to Thamasa?

Basically you are saying if you removed these 3 characters then you have room for more story development for the other, more used, characters. If that were the case then we would probably remove Umaro and especially Gogo who have no story and we would not remove Strago and especially Relm, who already have a story.

Quote

...Is Strago, Relm and Umaro any more useful in battle than the other characters? They're not even as useful, but even if they were, you can only have 4 characters in your party and most people choose not to use those 3 characters.

True, Umaro isn't any more useful in battle than other characters. He isn't useless, but I think we all agree that he is at the bottom of the spectrum. Relm and Strago however are good in battle. Relm has very high magic power and superb equips, so in a normal game she as good as Terra and Celes for spell casting. Strago is a pretty good spellcaster too, and if you take the time to learn his Lores they are very good too (sort of how like Gau's Rages are great once you overcome the learning curve, although to a lower degree for Strago). If we were removing characters by their ability in battle then Umaro and Cyan would be ahead of Strago and Relm.

Quote

....I suppose the better question might be this: Were these 3 characters worth the time it took to design them? Did they add enough to the game to make their existances worth while? Did we really need an old man, a little girl and a big ape?

It's basically about their characters again. Relm/Strago are funny and have stories. Umaro/Gogo are empty. So I don't see the connections being made that would favor removing Relm/Strago/Umaro. Relm/Strago/Umaro could have been made stronger, or better yet the extremely powerful characters could have been made weaker, but removing Relm, Strago, and Umaro would not have made the game better in my opinion.

This post has been edited by 1stclass on 15th June 2004 05:38

Well I think these characters are really symbollic. Strago is the blue mage, like the class in FF5 as is Umaro as the beserker and GoGo is the mime (and that was a secret in FF5 anyway). Relm isn't a filler character she moves a very interesting side quest on as King of Figaro mentioned before.


--------------------

He Was a Beast Without Fangs. Thats Why he's Dead. The Same Goes For You.

Personally I hated Relm and Umaro. Sure their music themes were nice but thats where the good points end for me. Sketch had to be one of the most useless abilities in the game and Umaro was just plain stupid and made no real impact on the games story.

Strago though is a different story. I found him to be quite funny and depthfull especially in relation to the other two. His blue magic was alright but could have been better implemented.

Overall I would have liked to see have seen Strago developed abit more and the blue magic system refined. As for Relm and Umaro... In my opinion the game would have been better off without them.

--------------------

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Midsummer dreamer,
Fantasy weaver,
Wild thing,
Noble king,
Spell caster,
Muggle Master
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Incidentally, these are 3 of the weaker characters in the game. But all games need characters that are weaker than others (well not neccesarily so, but RPGs aren't well known for their balancing). Strago has more backstory than other characters in the game anyway. Believe me, if Gau wasn't so "powerful" he'd be on this list too.

--------------------

"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Yeah, no kidding. 'Cept Gau has tons of backstory! Gigatons! Gau is cool! Gau's my favorite character in the whole freaking game! And I dont even USE the setup I'm named after! Merit Award+Tempest = Ãœber-cheap! Gau is cool, funny (Mr. Thou! =^_^=), has one hell of a history, GREAT music, personality, equipment, and... the ability to say 'shiny' 50 times in one sentence!

--------------------

Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!

Quote

'Cept Gau has tons of backstory! Gigatons!

How can you possibly say this? Except for Mog and possibly Celes, Gau has the least amount of backstory of all the standard characters. He doesn't even have a WoR quest, the most story interaction you have with him is taking him to his fathers house and that lasts what....a minute?

Also, I mentioned Celes cause there isn't alot of backstory except her relationship with Cid, but she has a ton of present-game story development to make up for it. Gau has the fact that he calls Sabin "Mr. Thou".

This post has been edited by The Ancient on 15th June 2004 17:02

--------------------

"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

There's the house sequence, a few things are mentioned in the village, and... he's Gau! What more could you want?

--------------------

Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!

I wasn't putting down Gau, I was talking about the amount of backstory he had to make a point in regards to this topic. It's even a point that we both agree on, Relm and Strago are not filler characters by any stretch.

--------------------

"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

=^_^= Ok, so Gau has almost zilch when it comes to background. He's still my favorite character of all time though. =^_^=

--------------------

Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!

Quote (The Ancient)

Believe me, if Gau wasn't so "powerful" he'd be on this list too.

Which would you miss more? The Veldt or a couple of new characters in Thamasa? The Veldt exists because of Gau, while Relm and Strago simply spruce up Thamasa a bit. If Gau didn't exist, the Veldt would probably be just another regular land mass with some forest and mountains. Mobliz wouldn't change much and the Serpent Trench would still be there, but the whole area would be very plain and boring. Prehaps a purple chocobo could lead you to the shiny helmets. Oh wow. Sabin's scenario, a favorite part of the game for many, suddenly wouldn't be that great anymore. Now what if Relm and Strago didn't exist? There could still be a mage warrior story in Thamasa and you would still go see the statues and meet the espers.

Possible spoilers: highlight to view

Those two have nothing to do with General Leo being killed in Thamasa, so that scene would still be there.

The only assets they really have to offer are their antics (though too cheesy and/or silly for some) and the burning house scene, along with the connections between Relm and Shadow. Because of this I think Gau has more to offer to the game, even for those who don't like him. The only thing Umaro has going for him is his connection with the game mascot Mog, and even that is really weak storywise.

This post has been edited by i90east on 16th June 2004 00:57

--------------------

FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Viva Gau!

--------------------

Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!

Relm: funny. Has Backstory. Uses control. Good.

Strago: Kinda funny. Has relation to War of the Magi. Blue Mage. You gotta keep the blue mage. Blue mages are awesome. Almost as good as Red. EVERY game should have a blue mage. And I don't just mean every RPG.

Umaro: Uncontrolable. Incapable of speech. Very little backstory or forestory. Just plain stupid. Bad. Umaro should go bye bye.

Gogo: Uber-powerful. Adds mystery. Mime. has NO forestory or non-implied backstory. Like what was said about Gau and the Veldt, Triangle Island exists in WoR because of Gogo. Good, if only because of the fun of thinking up theories for where Gogo comes from, and who Gogo is. I say he's Vincent

So, basically, keep strago, Relm, and Gogo. get rid of Umaro. Replace Umaro with some kind of forestory for Gogo. Just don't give Gogo any backstory, that makes him (or her) less mysterious.

--------------------

Mercy?! I am the sixth phase of your world's destruction! would you like some evil pie?

My name is Fox, I am infinitely great, and I am the author of this comic strip..

Quote

Which would you miss more? The Veldt or a couple of new characters in Thamasa?

Your missing the point. It's all arbitrary. The Veldt could be where Strago learns his Blue Magic and there could be more of it if their weren't "filler" characters like Gau. Not that I believe Gau is a filler character...I'm being facetious to give you an idea what it's like to call any of the games characters filler.

--------------------

"That Light has bestowed upon me the greatest black magic!"

Strago could also be the main character of the game with more powerful fighting abilities and better looks. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm presenting what roles the characters we're comparing play in the game as we know it. The Veldt was designed for Gau (or Gau was designed for the Veldt), so if he didn't exist neither would the Veldt. Now obviously my assumptions for what the game would have been like without certain characters is all imagination, and no one can really know for sure. I'm just trying to be direct in showing what Gau does for the game compared to Strago, Relm and Umaro, but if this evaluation doesn't fly too well then we can forget it.

--------------------

FFXI (Siren server)
Tauu the Windurstian Tarutaru!
White Mage & Paladin

Gau provides 3 things:
1. Offbeat humor
2. Powerful Attacks
3. Music that has an orchestrated version that'll bring tears to your eyes (Yes, I was that moved.)

--------------------

Uwao. aooh! I'm Gau!
I'm your friend!
Let's travel together!